Earlier this month, Elon Musk said he wanted to form a new political party. He’d been teasing the idea ever since clashing with President Donald Trump over his “big, beautiful bill,” which Musk accused of exploding the deficit. In June, Musk ran a poll on X asking users whether it was “time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle?” More than 5 million people responded, and 80 percent voted yes. Then, on July 5, Musk announced he was forming the American Party in hopes of giving voters their “back [their] freedom.” Those who follow Musk closely, like Bloomberg Businessweek national correspondent Joshua Green, have said Musk’s latest project is in line with his pursuit of political power and attention. “I think he thought he’d essentially bought that by backing Donald Trump to the tune of $300 million in the last election,” Green said previously on Today, Explained. “And Trump turned on him, ousted him, took away his EV tax credits, didn’t cut the deficit, trashed him on social media. And now I think Elon is humiliated and looking for a way to respond and hit back.” Trump has called Musk’s third-party proposal “ridiculous.” And the billionaire appeared to have moved from his third obsession by mid-July — at least on X — posting instead about Europe’s fertility rate and running damage control for the antisemitic rants of his AI platform Grok. But regardless of whether he follows through on the “America Party,” Musk appears to have hit a chord with an American electorate disillusioned by the two-party system. On Today, Explained, co-host Noel King dove into voters’ desires, the history of third parties, and possible solutions to the two-party stranglehold with Lee Drutman, senior fellow at the New America think tank and author of Breaking the Two Party Doom Loop: The Case for Multiparty Democracy in America. Below is an excerpt of their conversation, edited for length and clarity. There’s much more in the full episode, so listen to Today, Explained wherever you get podcasts, including Apple Podcasts, Pandora, and Spotify. You are not a big fan of the two-party system. You know, I think it’s outlived its usefulness. I think America is a pretty big, diverse country these days, you may have noticed. And to fit everybody into just two parties seems like kind of insanity, and it’s clearly not working. Also, it has divided this country into two teams — the red and the blue team — that have learned to absolutely hate each other. It’s created these artificial divisions around this zero-sum, winner-take-all electoral politics that is just really breaking down the foundations of democracy in this country. So, I think there was a time when it worked reasonably well for certain reasons, but that time is in the past. You will know that Elon Musk agrees with you. He says he wants to start a third party. He ran one of his polls [on X], and the question was: “Is it time to create a new political party in America that actually represents the 80% in the middle?” I’m looking at that poll now. Eighty percent of people said yes, 20 percent said no. How does that match up with reality in the US? Well, there are two parts to that question. One is: How many people want a third party? And then two is: How many people want that party to be somewhere in the middle? Now, the first part: How many people want a third party? That 80 percent is a little bit high. There might be some selection bias there, but it is close to polls that I’ve seen. Generally, about 60 to 70 percent of Americans say there ought to be more than two parties when polled. So, overwhelmingly, Americans say they want more than two parties. Now, is the party that they want a party in the center? That’s less clear. I think people’s perception of the political center depends on themselves. [Most] people think that they’re more reasonable and they’re more moderate. But in reality, when you look at the viewpoints of the American electorate, as I’ve done repeatedly, you see that the support for a genuine center party is limited to maybe 10 to 15 percent. But there is a lot of interest in parties that are maybe not as traditional. Third-party candidates do run for office all the time in the United States, they very rarely win. If so many voters want more options, why don’t we have more people in elected office from third parties? Here you’re hitting on the core problem, which is that we have a single-winner system of elections. So in a single-winner election, third parties become spoilers and wasted votes, because one of the two major parties is going to win every election. So, voting for a third party is just basically a protest vote, or maybe it could spoil the election. And as a result, most people don’t want to do that because they think, well, I want to vote for somebody who at least has a chance of winning. And, more importantly, people who have ambition in politics say, well, I’m not going to waste my time with one of these fringe parties. I want to actually win. So you get minor parties that are mostly cranks and weirdos and people say, well, I’d like to vote for another party, but not that third party. What’s the recent history of third-party candidates? Serious third-party candidates at a national level? I have a vague memory of Ross Perot, but I couldn’t give you many details. It was the nineties. How serious have third-party candidates been over time? Well, Ross Perot is the most recent third-party candidate to actually get a pretty decent share of the electorate. He got almost 20 percent of the electorate, although he didn’t win a single state. A lot of people remember Ralph Nader in 2000, who only